dragonballmultiversefandomcom-20200223-history
Talk:Power Levels
Questions FAQ Discuss everything about power levels here. Are the power levels official? No, these are fan estimations done for fun. Did Salagir approve of these? Salagir has only confirmed the "SSJ 1-6" list shown at the top of the page. Where can we get official readings? Do them yourself, or forget them. DBM is not about power levels, it's about what-if fights that fans can enjoy, so enjoy it however you choose to do so. How do I sign my posts? There should be a signature button if you go into visual mode. Or use "~" four times on a single line, or at the end of a sentence. Eugar 02:09, March 17, 2012 (UTC) Why do we need an FAQ? Because there are unregistered people coming into vandalize, troll, and leave inconclusive arguments lying about all thanks to anti-power level bias. There is also a mess of unverified information on this page. 'Discussion' *Use "Heading 3" and make sure to put four ~'s on your posts. *'Heading 3: '''What makes anybody think U13 Vegeta and Kakarotto could not reach Full Power Super Saiyan? *'Followed by:' 4 ~'s the first cell junior isn't stronger than Super Saiyan Prince Vegeta nor Kakarot from U13, because when Vegito and Broly attacked each other, those 2 stood their ground while the first Cell jr. went flying Your argument is flawed when the fanfiction clearly states that Cell jr. went flying into the wall because of his childish/weaker reflexes and not because of raw power, that Cell jr. could be stronger, as strong as or weaker them these saiyans, we'll never know, in the original list I put the jr. in FPSSJ,tier, but maybe he was in-between ASSJ and FPSSJ and for me these saiyans can't be that strong, I still, think they are Ascended SSJ tier.max. Fael955 (talk) 00:58, November 6, 2012 (UTC) Just saying... The fact that Tapion has been added to this list proves these power levels are bullshit. BHM1250 (talk) 16:27, September 21, 2012 (UTC) --Well, it not a power level list, its a power tiers list and Tapion is almost in the bottom of it nearing Babidi.Fael955 (talk) 20:51, January 8, 2013 (UTC). 'Arale' I think Arale shouldn't be here yet. There are different interpretations of her and we need to know Salagir's view of her power. People think that she is about power level 300 because Troyama said she was stronger than Goku after Goku fought Piccolo. It is possible she is weaker than Raditz in the Db universe but we can't assume before looking at the fight aginst android 18. Zendarmanitan (talk) 23:53, January 28, 2013 (UTC)zendarmanitan Tapion Tapion was claimed to be weaker than dbz raditz by the creater of DBM he said he made a mistake. so I removed him besides the low level tier one. '''Ok, fair enough.' 71.126.140.192 -- I did the last revision, We don't know if Dr. Raichi can summon Hatchiyack, let's wait, I included a statement of the recent chapter of the novel that Base Bra is stronger than Base Gotenks, I removed the Tapion's percentages of Hirudegarn's power, let's wait and see the level he can pull of using the demon. Fine. 'Goku Super Saiyan 3 and Super Saiyan 2 Gotenks' Goku hasn't used the dragon fist and there is no Super Saiyan 2 Gotenks so I will remove those. Zendarmanitan (talk) 22:25, January 25, 2013 (UTC)zendarmanitan There is no reason to assume Gotenks doesn't have SSJ2. In the manga there is 2 panels of him in SSJ2 and by passing it to go SSJ3. ' '''How much sense does it make for a guy to be able to turn ssj3, without learning and wielding ssj2 first? ' '''Not a lot. 'Bojack and Base Bra' super Bojack is almost Perfect cell DBZ so if Bra was even with Super Bojack, Salagir would have put her in the same tier as dbz Cell. So I put Bra down one but still over Gotenks. Zendarmanitan (talk) 18:36, January 26, 2013 (UTC)zendarmanitan Super Bojack = FP Perfect Cell, but Super Perfect Cell >>> Super Bojack ' '''As long as Bra > Gotenks, I'm fine. ' Goku and Vegeta After ROSAT and 7 years of training, Base Goku and Vegeta should be at basic Super Saiyan tier at the very bottom. 'In would put them mid Basic Saiyan tier but that's just me. ' 71.126.140.192 -- Zendarmanitan (talk) 18:38, January 26, 2013 (UTC)zendarmanitan Two questions One, did the author approve the Universe 9 humans being so insanely high? And what is "max kaio-ken"? Two, why does this table not at all match with the incredibly bloated Power Pyramid page? RandomGuy96 (talk) 06:07, May 18, 2013 (UTC) I would say it's fairly acceptable to put Base Goku and Vegeta at very bottom exactly below 100% Cooler and 100% Frieza as Salagir thinks none of living beings can't surpass Frieza's family's full power, the only exeptions are Kaioshins... If we accept Frieza's full power was 120,000,000 then we can suspect the limit a normal living being can never pass with training is 100,000,000. Then other beings, like Salagir states, can use cheating methods, so we can assume these cheating boosts can give to our heroes unlimited possibilites to increase power... Some guys you are not consistent to yourselves! You put Base Son Pan (universe 16) above Base Goku and Vegeta, but Full Power Goku and Vegeta are above Full Power Super Saiyan Pan! But, Ok, let's do it let's say Son Pan is above Base Goku and Vegeta then She must be higher in her super saiyan form! Please forgive me, but I don't think such a thing is being possible, and I don't believe Base Son Pan is above Base Goku and Vegeta either. So I make a change. Please if you can give me an explataion to Base Pan being stronger than Goku and Vegeta, but weaker in super saiyan level then them, please do it. 06:35, May 27, 2013 (UTC) SSJ3 Goku is STRONGER than Mystic Gohan, Guys '''I know the people on here seem to be in unanimous agreement that Mystic Gohan is somehow way stronger (four times as strong, actually) than SSJ3 Goku, but for the reasons that I explain in detail below, this idea is just idiotic, and ignores a number of established facts from the Manga, the DBZ Films/Anime, and (possibly) the actual Novelization of DBM: Okay, so for one thing (and this argument won't convince everybody since it's based on one of the movies, so for further arguments that might seem more convincing, see the later paragraphs below), it is clear that Dragon Ball Multiverse follows a continuity in which the events of the movie with Tapion and Hirudegarn took place at some point in the past of Universe 18. Now, I dunno who else here has seen that movie, but it was OBVIOUS in that movie that due to Goku's training, he had become significantly stronger than Mystic Gohan as a SSJ3. . .Mystic Gohan was basically one-shot K.O.'d by Hirudegarn, and was BARELY able to fight against just Hirudegarn's lower-half, in the movie, while SSJ3 Goku basically single-handedly beat up on Hirudegarn, even after Hirudegarn entered his "chrysalis" phase and metamorphosized into an even more powerful form. Of course, it took Goku's Dragon-Punch technique to finally completely destroy Hirudegarn in the movie, and it is quite obvious that the Dragon Punch is one of the most extreme examples of "ki amplificiation" as people in this talk-section have been calling it. . .but, even before finally resorting to using the Dragon Punch to effectively spike his ki several dozen times, SSJ3 Goku was still able to put up a good fight against Hirudegarn, an opponent far beyond Mystic Gohan's level, with just his "normal" punches, kicks, kamehameha, etc, while in SSJ3 form. Okay, now for an argument not based on something totally non-canon like the movies: Basically, people seem to be basing the assumption that Mystic Gohan is significantly stronger than SSJ3 Goku, on Salagir's official statement (see: http://dragonballmultiverse.wikia.com/wiki/Power_Levels) that "Goku (DBZ)" falls into the category of "standard Super Saiyan Three Level power," while Mystic Gohan falls into the "In-Between" level one tier above that. But, notice that Salagir only stated that about DBZ GOKU, meaning GOKU BACK DURING THE ACTUAL ORIGINAL, CANON MANGA AND ANIME. Salagir never once implied that Goku, by the time of the tournament in DBM (ten whole years after the end of the series) hasn't actually SURPASSED the level of a "typical" Super Saiyan Three, and entered the "In-Between" tier as a result. Notice that, in the official statement about "tiers" of power from Salagir, he places what he calls "Base Vegetto (DBZ)" in a tier BELOW "Base Vegetto" (DBM), meaning that in the ten years since he was first "born," Vegetto's base-power has increased by an entire "tier" of ability. It would stand to reason, based on this, that Goku, since he has a habit of always training as brutally and as hard as possible, and himself is one half of Vegetto's personality, would have advanced by a whole tier in Universe 18. While Gohan, being the lazy brat that he is when it comes to training, should not have gotten the least bit stronger since the end of the Manga. And so, I believe that Super Saiyan Three Goku AS OF THE TOURNAMENT IN DBM, should be placed in the "in-between" tier, and that the rankings in this tier should go: Mystic Gohan<------------------------- "(23) Zangya is significantly weaker than Super Saiyan Trunks as stated in chapter 79 0f the DBM novel: When the latter got angry and became a real threat, powering up, she kicked Kulilin away in order to properly deal with a more worthy opponent. If Gokua had been defeated by him, it meant that Trunks could potentially be a threat to her as well. She actually found herself on the run, strategically trying to avoid her own death until Bujin could come and help." '' '''Absolutely untrue, in the real movie she was not even around, not that it would would matter anyway. It amazes me, how anyone can come to any other conclusion except Gokua is sgnificantly weaker than his comrades. Is the author you trying say something ridiculous like Gokua > Zangya. Gokua is essentually the Guldo of his group, he didn't even have had a desive advantage over base Trunks until he transformed, only then did he gain complete control over. Even so Trunks basically one shot kills Gokua as soon as he goes SSJ. Base Gokua is Frieza tier and' Gokua TRANSFORMED is Andriod tier, no stronger than Andriod 16 at best. Zangya defects Gohans ki blast and that feat alone puts her at least a little stronger than a Cell Jr. SSJ Trunks would have a hard time deflecting a ki blast from SSJ Gohan without stinging his hand, Zangya had no trouble deflecting Gohan's balst. Also, Bujin wasn't instantly killed the way Gokua was, Implying Bujin >>> Gokua. Zangya is not weaker than SSJ Trunks and Gokua's instant fall wouldn't have Zangya running scared, that's nonsense. But I guess this is the author's story so; he can get as many things wrong as he wants and he doesn't have to justify himself for it. ' '----------------' Gohan barely put effort in that ki blast, show me proof that trunks would have a hard time deflecting a ki blast as we can see how can ki blast in series are nothing, also bido and bujin had to help her against trunks, she would have gotten raped by trunks without their help 1. Says you, Gohan would not barely put effort into a blast against a threat to Earth. Especially after just recently learning from Android 16 that there is nothing wrong with fighting to potect the earth, also take into account what happened the last time Gohan held back against a threat to the Earth (Cell nearly destroyed the Earth) and you can see how little sense Gohan holding back makes in this scanario. Gohan was using the full extent of his power in the SSJ form. I don't have to prove anything to you. The burden of proof is on you to prove Gohan held back. 2. Of course Trunks would get hurt trying to deflect a blast from Gohan, it's common sense. SSJ Gohan M9 was stronger than SSJ Goku (Cell Games) who in turn was much stronger than SSJ Trunks. Trunks would not be able to deflect a blast from Goku. Un-charged ki blast unless supressed are at least equal to the users power. Zangya deflected Gohan's ki blast, which in turn means she can't be less than 80% of Gohan (and even that's pushing it). It's questionable if SSJ Trunks is even 66% of SSJ Goku who is WEAKER than SSJ Gohan by a moderate margin. SSJ Gohan and SSJ Goku would beat Zangya handily, but Trunks vs Zangya would be a repeat of his fight against a Cell Jr (he'd lose). And I had just rewatched the movie and I feel even more in making the claim that Zangya would beat Trunks (Trunks would have to get very lucky to win this fight). ''' '''3. Base Bojack >> Zangya >= Bido >>> Bujin >>>> Gokua. Zangya needs Bido and Bujin to help beat Gohan, but Trunks no. --- Gotenks SSJ3 IS SSJ"5" Tier as Salagir mentioned above the table. Son Bra stated he could defeat Gotenks because she feels herself enough skilled technically that in SSJ2 form could be on par with Gotenks who can use his SSJ3 form very shortly and without too much experience in fight. I think Goku could defeat SSJ2 Bra in a longer match as he became more skilled and he is a fighting genius after all. Being powerful doesn't mean you have all to win. Goku once asked if Bra is more powerful that himself... Yes she could be but taht means he can not fight her on par. I think Goku at very low sould be In-between Tier after so many years hard training, but let's wait unti he meets Vegeta in tounament. Please do not edit Salagir's power levels, he has not confirmed those levels... I restore that! 1. Says you, Why would gohan put effort in that ki blast? Tell me at least one example of a dbz character putting effort in a ki blast, zangya deflecting a ki blast means nothing as gohan barely put any effort in it, "the burden of proof in on you" lol, you assume that gohan put any effort in the attack BUT HE CHARGED IT IN A FEW SECONDS, TELL ME HOW DID HE PUT ANY EFFORT IN IT WHEN HE CHARGED FOR 1 SECOND Why would Gohan put effort into that ki blast?? How about the first fact being that these guys were threats to the earth and second fact the last time Gohan held back on dealing with a problem to the Earth it nearly got him killed (by Cell). But I guess Super Perfect Cell wrecking SSJ2 Gohan's arm with a relatively similar un-charged ki blast means nothing because you say ki blast are garbage huh :p. Well I completely wrecked your cop out argument. '''*Gohans blast was at least as strong as him as an uncharged ki blast is at least equal to the user. * This is proven by Cell ummobilizing Gohan's arm. What the f*ck are you talking about? I already proved you wrong. Now The burden of proof is so on you to prove Gohan stupidly held back when he has every reason not to do so. Come up with a legitimate reason why Gohan would hold back when he is possibly facing 3 on 1 odds (one that's not: Gohan is holding back because I say so) and you'd have a point, but I doubt you can. 2. Baseless, ki blast are trash in the dbz universe, lol, you dont saw the movie, Bido had to use his webs against trunks when she was fighting zangya, Why didn't zangya one shotted trunks? common sense would say that trunks is stronger than zangya because bido had to help her against trunks, gohan>>trunks>>zangya>=bido=kogu=bujin Why because you say so. Bujin also used those webs to help Super Bojack beat up on SSJ Gohan, that doesn't mean that Super Bojack needed the help lol. Baseless conjuncture on your part. ''' '''Why wasn't Trunks owning Zangya before Bujin got involved if he's so strong, answer is clearly Trunks isn't the badass you claim he is, all you're doing is blowing smoke up his ass. Zangya is at least equal to a Cell Jr, there is no proof that Tunks got much stronger after the Cell Games if at all. You're the one that needs to rewatch the movie Gohan >> Zangya > Bido >= Trunks >> Bujin How about the fact that gohan charged his attack for 1 second? For example cell charged his attack for one second and was only able to destroy a mountain, cell was close to gohan, "I already proved you wrong" funny considering you are baseless. Dude your hilarous XD. Cell was 90% of Gohan at best, so he's close but he would be taken out handily by a healthy Gohan. Even at a slight disadvantage powerwise Cell charged his blast for a second and Gohan's arm was f*cked up as a result. If that generic blast did that to Gohan, then it would do more than just only destroy a mountain. You make no sense. ''' Ki blast=users according to you but you forget that frieza threw lot of ki blasts against piccolo but piccolo was only scratched which shows your ignorance, tien was able to deflect a buutenks ki blast which proves ki blasts are trash in the series, you have been saying anything but baseless bullshit from your ass, come one, tell why the ki blast was strong when it was charged for a second and when ki blast are trash in the series just like buutenks ki blast, I highly doubt you can as you are baseless '''Frieza was weaker than Piccolo anyway which is why he came back nearly unfazed. As for Buutenks you got me there. But still Tien used his strongest blast to block that attack, even so the scene makes no sense so I'll give you that one. 2. Gohan was actually putting some fight against Bojack, they needed to help bojack in order to prevent gohan for doing any damage. SSJ Gohan would not have beaten Super Bojack because he had the advantage even before Bujin interfered, meaning HE DIDN'T NEED HIS HELP. Super Bojack was in complete control, Bujin just made things easier for Bojack. ''' Zangya only retreat after she kicked trunks for a few seconds. '''No, you pulled that straight from your ass! She was trading blows with Trunks not retreating and Bujin pinned him web and she kicked his ass. Bujin interfered to make thing easy for Zangya (It's what Bujin does). She was Fighting Trunks just fine on her own. You had me waste an hour watching the whole film and I can't find this scene where Trunks intimidates Zangya, or Bido and Bujin for that matter. Point this scene out to me where Bojack's henchmen are running scared from him. Where is this supposed scene, my friend. :p zangya is at the very best equal to a jr and that is being really generous but of course baseless "fans" like you are completely baseless, the burden of proof is on you You killed your own argument. If your saying Zangya is equal to Cell Jr level, then that means she's stronger than Trunks genius (which was my point since the beginning). Trunks was struggling to stay even with a Cell Jr and it's not like he got any stronger since the Cell Games. You say say I'm baseless but you still failed to give me a convincing reason why Gohan supposedly held back when he's the one facing 3 on 1 odds. What's the matter can't come up with something other than ki blast are garbage. You're the baseless one my friend Watch this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=usco896ZZZ0 and I dare you to come back and tell me Gohan was holding back in those fist fights with Bujin, Bido and Zangya. He clearly didn't look to be holding back to me. They give Gohan trouble (together but still they can't be that far behind Gohan). They're attacks were affecting Gohan. If they were one shot material to Trunks, it would be impossible for them to give Gohan trouble. Gohan would have tanked their attacks. Teaming up on someone doesn't mean sh*t if your much weaker than your opponent (a fact proven many time in the series). Trunks can beat Bujin, fight Bido to a stand still but he would be at a disadvantage against Zangya. I'm not saying Trunks can't put up a decent fight but he unless he gets lucky would lose to her 1 on 1. If anything the henchmen needed to use cheap tactics and triple teaming against Gohan. Trunks beating Gokua in one shot means nothing BECAUSE Gokua was a weaking compared to his comrades, that is proven my the movie. And Zangya wasn't around anyway so where is she running scared Mr. Baseless --- I'm saying that zangya is at the very best cell jr level, most likely weaker than trunks, learn to read and come back. I heard you the first time and didn't prove sh*t! Those henchmen were giving Gohan trouble, that means at least two of them weren't too far behind him (Cell Jr level at the very least). Otherwise they're combined efforts would not have given Gohan any trouble. *NONE AT ALL, ESPECIALLY IF THEY WERE ONE SHOT MATERIAL TO TRUNKS LIKE YOU PREVIOUSLY CLAIMED!* Putting them at even 1% below Trunks would put them to weak to give ANY Gohan trouble. And Gohan was not holding in the fist fights, the movie did not display such a scene. Trunks is not stronger than them because he is weaker than a Cell Jr (and Cell Jr level is the lowest you can go for Bido and Zangya.) I just showed that ki blasts are trash in the series as you still ignore like always that gohan charged the blast for 1 second, please explain how that attack was powerful when he charged it in 1 second, Oh wait you can't. And no Zangya needed Bido and Bujin to interfere in the fight. ' Even, if I were to accept your claim that ki blast are garbage and don't prove anything. The hand to hand exchanges are more than good enough to prove Bido and Zangya are more than a match for Trunks. So my point stands, Bido and Zangya are stronger than Trunks as they can't be less than 70% of Gohan. Trunks is not 70% of Gohan that's for damn sure. And just further put the nail in the coffin, consider the fact that they eventually knocked Gohan from SSJ into base. So, there you go. Is that proof enough for you or are you going to just keep saying ki-blasts are garbage??' actually movies works different from the manga and anime. Manga logic is different from Movie logic, huh. If you believe that's the case, than why the hell are you trying to debunk me with scenes from the manga?. You can't use Tien deflecting Buu's blast as evidence if you truly believe that. Not that it would matter anyway because Buu one shot K.O'S Tien anyway. Unlike Tien vs. Buu, Bido and Zangya showed they can at least threaten Gohan hand to hand. So, what's your point? ''' for example piccolo got owned by garlick jr henchmen in M1 and Slug henchmen in M4 even when he dominated them in one on one fight, look who is talking, the one who thinks that a ki blast that was charged in one second when I proved that ki blasts are trash, for example even tien was able to deflect a ki blast from buutenks which proves ki blasts are trash '''1. I already acknowledged that if anything the three of them needed to team up against Gohan, but that's it! Gohan would have beat either one on one, but the ganging up turned the tides. And based on that they can't be too far behind Gohan. GANGING UP MEANS NOTHING IF THE OPPONENTS ARE TOO FAR BEHIND STRENGTH WISE! So what are you trying to prove by bringing up the irrelevant M1 and M4? All that means is that the henchmen in those movies were strong enough to give Piccolo trouble with their combined efforts while being no problem 1 on 1 for Piccolo. So what? 2. Ki-blast are garbage, you certainly love saying that. Fine let's disregard any ki-blast than. It doesn't change what was shown in the film. It was an even battle between Zangya and Trunks before Bujin even applied the electric strings to interefere. If Zangya was running away from Trunks or if he was owning her in a one sided fight before the interference came along, you'd have a point. But that's not what happened, they traded blows and then Bujin comes in; proving there was no such need to gang up on Trunks. Gohan was the threat, not Trunks! Have a nice day Mrs. Baseless. Mrs Baseless? How original. You're one that can't provide an argument without talking about supposed scenes that never happened in the movie. And you try to present that as evidence, pathetic. And you keep trying dance around giving me an explanation for why you believe Gohan was holding back or SHOWING me a scene where Trunks was intimidating Bojack's henchmen. Trunks was not at any point in the movie dominating Bido, Bujin or Zangya (even 1 on 1). And Gohan was not holding back, there is no way he would when he's outnumbered 3 to 1. If Gohan was supposedly holding back in the hand to hand portions of the fight, PROVE IT OR STFU! If M1 and M4 scenes are your explanation, than you seriously need to come up with something better than that! '''BTW I'm a man, not a woman! So you address me like a man, Chump!